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Info-ParaNet Newsletters Volume I Number 370 Thursday, February 28th 1991 Today's Topics: Re: Lazar end. Re: Skeptics 'Secrets' and Gulf Breeze Re: Lazar End. (None) Re: Japanese videotape Re: File disclaimers Re: Old writers ALTERNATIVE 3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick.Moen@f27.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Rick Moen) Subject: Re: Lazar end. Date: 25 Feb 91 06:08:13 GMT > Lazar and Huff did in fact send UFO Magazine a copy of Lazar's W-2 > form which is now included in UFO Magazine Vol. 6, No. 2. The form > lists Lazar's former employer as Naval Intelligence. Whoa there, Don. There's something _very wrong_ with accepting this form as evidence of anything at all. I'll be very reassured if you aren't going to need me to tell you what that is, and can/will let the echo know, instead of leaving us with the implication that it constitutes actual evidence. Best Skeptical Regards <grin>, Rick M. -- Rick Moen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Rick.Moen@f27.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick.Moen@f27.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Rick Moen) Subject: Re: Skeptics Date: 25 Feb 91 06:10:55 GMT Doug -- Thank you for (again) a thoughtful posting, and for your kind words. Best Regards, Rick M. -- Rick Moen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Rick.Moen@f27.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stl-06sima.army.mil!wmartin Subject: 'Secrets' and Gulf Breeze Date: 26 Feb 91 16:55:23 GMT From: Will Martin <wmartin@stl-06sima.army.mil> Well, *there's* proof that there is a cover-up conspiracy!!!!! ^^^^^ Those who watched the ABC 'America's Best-kept Secrets' last night (25 Feb) will know whereof I speak. The show proceeded normally up to the segment on Gulf breeze, which was preceeded by a commercial break. Then, only a few seconds into the segment, it was wiped off the air by an ABC News 'Gulf War Special Update'. Was this real Gulf War news? NO! It was a totally worthless piece of puffery with no particular time-reference. They spoke of the President's advisers meeting at the White House. This was a non-event, which in no way justified an interruption of regular programming: 1) I expect these advisers and high mucky-mucks to meet *all the time* during this period of national crisis; that's what we pay them for! The fact that they met was NOT newsworthy. 2) There was no public statement issued or live press briefing at this time; the time chosen to interject this 'special update' had no relation to actual newsworthiness. This can be proven by the fact they let a commercial break go by complete and uninterrupted, and only afterwards presented this update. When the update finished, they cut back to the GB story, which was just about meaningless and near the end after having its meat ripped out. Let me emphasize that I am not claiming that this or any other entertainment program is more important than war news. War coverage should take precedence. (As I pointed out above, though, this was NOT 'war news' due to its content.) Where ABC and all the other networks are wrong is in the fact that they are presenting *any* 'entertainment' during this time, if they are going to interrupt it at unpredictable intervals. (This particular one probably orchestrated by a 'man in black' lurking in the shadows of the control room... :-) They should have been an all-news service ever since the war began; it would have allowed adequate coverage of all the other news that has been ignored during this time. Regards, Will -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don.Ecker@f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker) Subject: Re: Lazar End. Date: 26 Feb 91 23:27:00 GMT Rick Moen said with skeptical tongue in side of cheek; > Whoa there, Don. There's something _very wrong_ with > accepting this > form as evidence of anything at all. I'll be very > reassured if you > aren't going to need me to tell you what that is, and > can/will let the > echo know, instead of leaving us with the implication > that it > constitutes actual evidence. Whoa there Rick. I do not recall saying ANY SUCH THING. What I did say was that we received a fax of the W-2 form in question. I did not say that we thought it was genuine. However, rest assured. . . . . I am following up on it. Nuff said. Don -- Don Ecker - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Ecker@f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: lush@ecn.purdue.edu (Gregory B Lush) Subject: (None) Date: 27 Feb 91 17:27:28 GMT From: lush@ecn.purdue.edu (Gregory B Lush) First of all, I apologize for creating unnecessary intrigue about my name. My name is Greg Lush. I thought that would come at the top of the mail header, but it didn't. I sign all my mail out here GBL so it is a habit. ------- I have been trying to tell people about the Phoenix Journals for 8 months now, and have gotten a wide variety of responses which can be condensed into 3 categories: 1) Militant accusations of my inability to discern my head from a Hatonn in the ground. 2) This is a hard reaction to describe without embellishing with bias. If I were to say the response was open-minded, it would sound critical of those who wouldn't believe. If you don't choose to believe, fine. I only wanted to share what I think is, quite frankly, the most important information you can ever come in contact with. (With a statement like that, I guess my objectivity might be thrown out the window.) Let's just say that I was able to discuss this with some people without having something thrown at me. They might have laughed at me later, but were polite enough to spare me. 3) Absolute fear and giving up of hope. Some actually got physically sick to their stomach. I guess this means that these people believed. Such a response is, unfortunately, the worst possible. Fear typically arises lack a of knowledge. I believe that things are going to get pretty horrendous on this planet soon, and for a long time. Knowledge is your best tool. Saddam Hussein calls the Persian Gulf War the Mother of all Battles. I think he is in the know of what is going on, though he might not survive it all. The best way to survive is to have knowledge. There is a way to 'win' and individuals will be given what they need to survive if they ask. That is why the Pleidians are here. I guess I hope that when I share this with people, they recognize that if all of conspiracy theory is true--or even a part of it--then the repercussions are horrendous enough that it merits attention. The individual then must make an effort to verify the information from of other sources. I recommend these Journals because no other source that I have seen is so complete. ------- It's rare that one person can write a book that will encompass the whole picture. The reason there is over 6000 pages of material from the Pleidians is that it takes that much to cover it all. The publishers have put it all together in in 1-1/2 years. It takes years to investigate just one aspect of this. I feel that they bring it together in an understandable way. I believe that once you have the WHOLE picture, you can understand how it is not only possible that these conspiratorial charges are true, but the data uncovered by humans alone makes it LIKELY that it is going on. ------- I have read two books that you might try to find in a used bookstore: None Dare Call It Treason, by John Stormer who now lives in MO and None Dare Call It Conspiracy and ANYTHING ELSE written by Gary Allen. These talk about several aspects of this business (not aliens) and are well footnoted. Everything the Pleidians write has been, they claim, written before, and the two books above are examples of this. There is nothing I can say to one who does not believe in aliens to make him believe, and I won't waste my time doing it. I joined this newsletter because I was surprised to see people discussing this. I posted to the newsletter because I saw genuine questions being asked that I thought I could answer. If I sounded as if I was coming down off a very high horse, I apologize. People ask me if I believe that these Journals represent truth. I have to say that I KNOW they are truth. Why? Because I have researched as fully as my resources and time allow. Because I now see the aspects of The Plan manifesting themselves every day that I read the paper. I warn everyone to watch Russia now, because what happens there, will happen here. This is the The Global 2000 plan for world control through the United Nations, and it is happening. We will have martial law, $50 and $100 notes confiscated without warning, and war will find its way here. ------- If you don't believe me, I just ask that you keep the address for the Journals in case something happens that raises your eyebrows enough to let some more light in. I DON'T CARE WHETHER THERE ARE ALIENS HERE OR NOT. It does not matter. It is possible to verify the information regarding our government contained within these Journals. Ignore the author and absorb the information. What matters is whether or not our country is being taken away from us along with our Freedoms. I believe there are aliens here. Why? Because everything I have been able to verify that they have written has turned out to be truth. After a while, I got tired of saying, 'well Hatonn, you were right again.' There were many questions posed to me so I will answer some--some I might have skipped because someone else answered it or I forgot. I'm only human. ------- Why wouldn't the aliens just solve all our problems? Because WE created them and it is up to us, as a planet, to take responsibility to solve them ourselves. The Pleidians are not allowed to interfere, just like Capt. Kirk and his Prime Directive. This gets a little hard to understand because by writing the Journals, they seem to be interfering in a BIG way. They are allowed to 'help' when requested by humans, or when the results of our idiotic wars begins to spill into the Cosmos, but the precise boundaries of how much help is allowed are obscure to me. There was a reference to the year 1992. In a letter to the publishers, a man stated that a massive bomb shelter is being built in Australia (in the side of a mountain) to house 10,000 people (Elite). It is to be completed in 1992. I guess that might support the 1992 calculation for a Nuke-fest. ------- I apologize for saying what I said about New Agers in such a blunt and unjustified way. I wouldn't know a New Ager if he fell on me. All I said was that the Pleidians were not kind to the New Agers. I didn't say they didn't believe in them or wanted to blow them up. Their criticism is that their 'way' teaches people to "just be." I don't know if this is a valid criticism. God wants workers working hard. Someone has since posted some info about channeling and references to Hatonn in other books. He intimated that the two don't jive. Choosing which one is more 'correct' is up the discerning reader. ------- The Pleidians say that there is nothing of channeling about how the information for these books is received. Hatonn explains that the receiver receives short wave radio communications in his/her head--we have an internal antennae, I guess. She then types it into a computer. The Pleidians do not publish the books; they provide the information, and humans do the work. ------- I know nothing about Ruth Montgomery. Hatonn was mentioned in a book I saw, but did not read. In it were pictures of aliens ships picking up people using something similar to a Star Trekkian transporter. If such a picture is in one of her books, then it is likely the same person. His 'popularity' as someone put it in a posting may cause others to claim to speak with him in order to gain credibility for their book. But I don't know. ------- EBE they describe as someone who was here to help us too. He came in friendship and love. He was invited in and then incarcerated and tortured. These creatures are most beloved by the members of the Cosmos. I will try to quote Hatonn correctly when he said 'You (humans) owe a tremendous debt to your Cosmic Brothers.' ------- I am ignorant of UFO literature. I did not know who Bill Cooper was until I read these Journals. I made a rather strong statement about Mr. Cooper being a liar of great proportions without explaining it very well. Remember, there are two ways to create misinformation: one is with lies, the other with truth. For instance, you can tell people a lot of facts that can be verified. If you then add that, by the way, the aliens would just as soon have you roasted as talk to you, you can create a great deal of fear. There are outtakes from the series of postings EBE#1-EBE#XX that are printed word for word in one of the Journals, Space-Gate, The Veil Removed. I didn't know this until I saw them and recognized them. That means that, if you believe the Pleidians, there is truth in those postings. However, there is mis/dis-information as well, and that is included to distract, confuse, and create fear. ------- Someone called the aliens a bunch of liars who can't get their stories straight. Perhaps it is the humans interfacing with the aliens who are not getting their stories straight. ------- Isn't it interesting that so many who try to bring forth truth end up in insane asylums? Admiral Bird and Forrestal (Sec. of Defense WW II) for instance. ------- If you want to find out about CIA, Mossad, and drugs, see what you can find of Bo Gritz's writings. I have no address. When the CIA is identified as controlling drug trade, it doesn't mean that CIA agents deal the drugs. It simply means that no drug dealer operates outside their control, and that the growers, and all are outfitted with weapons by the CIA and the Mossad. This was in the news very recently, though not quite as bluntly as I have stated it here. There was a connection made between some guns found in S. America and the Mossad. There's also that book by the ex-Mossad agent which Israel attempted to ban. It has useful info about the drug business. ------- I have not seen a mention of the planet Marduk. I don't know what it is. I have been told, long ago, probably by a friend, that there was a planet where we are long ago, but that it was exploded by its inhabitants. This is the source of one of our meteor showers every year. Earth was the 4th planet out from the sun. Our moon was brought in to stabilize the solar system. This is another significant reason why the Pleidians are here. If we were to blow up earth, it would have huge repercussions for this sector of the galaxy. They are trying to keep that from happening. They once physically supported our planet to keep it from flipping on its axis, but were subsequently ordered to stop by a central 'Federation' which our planet is under. ------- - > In order for their ships to become visible, they must - > 'lower the frequency' at which they are vibrating to - > match ours. - Any way possible for us to monitor this with some - kind of hardware, or is it a psi-related phenomena? The Pleidians explain that psychic phenomena and all that is attached with it, such as remote viewing, is just simple physics. The receiving of this material is not mystical or channeling. It is physics that the general populace knows nothing about, but is really quite simple to them (obviously). Nikola Tesla developed an understanding of much of this, but the bad guys (whoever THEY are) got to him, and have hidden a lot of his work. ------- How does one know whom to believe? I will quote from an independent posting: - I am reminded - of what my Grandmother taught me about lies. - Make one lie and you'll soon have to make several - more to hide the first one. Your grandmother was/is very wise. This is the best way to help your discernment in listening to our controlled media. If they keep changing the story, it's a lie; truth is truth. Bush's stories change from day to day. Also, note that in the ABC special 'Best Kept Secrets,' the token debunker never questioned the data or the information or the pictures taken. He just made rambling statements about the character of the people involved, saying, '...some people have a need to be the center of attention...' (He, for instance). Also, note the stories that were juxtaposed with the Gulf Breeze incidents. Overall, the show was intentionally stupid, I thought. Bush rarely questions President Hussein's information, but always attacks his character--in fact vice versa is true as well. ------- The Pleidians, as they describe themselves, do not represent 'life as we know it'. They say that ALL planets in this system are inhabited, but not necessarily by 'life as we know it.' ------- The Hubble Telescope was built, tested and loaded into the shuttle and 'never was there a more beauteous instrument built (by humans)' the Pleidians say. However, a replacement/substitute was also made because it was likely that a whole lot of truth would come out of it. I guess, if you read some of the public review about the events leading up to the 'switch,' you find that the designers were not allowed to be a part of the re-loading process, and that it was stored for an extensive time in an 'off-limits' location covered by a shroud. ------- So, should you believe me? No. You should get some of the books and read them and make your own judgement. They are only $10 each and you get a discount for 4. You get 4 very interesting books for $40. That's not expensive. (No, I don't own stock in their publishing corporation.) If half of what I've told you is true, it is an investment with excellent returns. I warn you now that the early Journals are not well written in terms of grammar, and that Hatonn comes off as a haughty lecturer much of the time. I guess, if he exists, and can see what ridiculous things we are doing down here with the kind of clarity that his position affords, perhaps he is justified in getting a little frustrated. I think the best thing you can do is call the 800 number and ask for their catalog. It gives a paragraph description of each Journal. Upon reading it you will see the breadth of their topics of coverage, and you will understand why it's so confusing to listen to me. It won't cost you anything and you will be able to make a more informed decision about whether you wish to read any of it. I include this again for completeness: America West Publishers P.O. Box 986 Tehachapi, CA 93581 Phone: 1-800-729-4131 Greg Lush -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick.Moen@f27.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Rick Moen) Subject: Re: Japanese videotape Date: 27 Feb 91 05:47:58 GMT > RM> Fourth, any skeptic worth his doubts _will_ be able to tell what > RM> evidence would suffice to convince him on a given factual claim. > RM> Klass, Sheaffer, and Oberg _can and have_ said what would > RM> convince them. So, they may be wrong, but they're not > RM> dogmatists. > > Have they made definitive statements, and if so where are these > available? Good question. Yes, but I'm not sure where these can be found. Klass can be reached at 404 "N" Street, Washington, DC 20024, and Sheaffer is at 1875 Fallbrook Ave., San Jose, CA 95130. If you're curious, write to them, and I'm sure they'll be able to fill you in with a reference or two. I don't have an address for James Oberg, but you may be able to reach him care of Houston NASA. Best Regards, Rick M. -- Rick Moen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Rick.Moen@f27.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick.Moen@f27.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Rick Moen) Subject: Re: File disclaimers Date: 27 Feb 91 06:00:05 GMT > [original post taken from Ask/UFO conference] > > RM> Ralph Putnam to Mike Corbin: > > RP>> Anyway, the question is, why do the ParaNet nodes (at least the > RP>> ones I have dialed into) continue to carry the Bill Cooper > RP>> files? Is there some valid info. in there? From your (and > ... > RM> or of the author's reputation. I don't think I've seen the > RM> particular files you mention (waiting for a disk or two from > RM> Mike), but even if they're _really bad_, they can -- at a > RM> minimum -- be valuable as an example of their kind. > > I'm wondering what you mean by "of their kind" ? Wonder no longer. Read 'em and find out. > Since you are, quite understandably, sensitive about being lumped > in with some other "skeptics", shouldn't we be careful here too? No, we should not. My statement was a plea against deleting the files of a writer on UFOlogy, even though just about everyone considers them to carry no credibility whatsoever. Do you have a problem with that, John? I most assuredly do not. > RM> If I were really worried about the impression these things might > RM> make on callers, I might have two UFO file areas: General and > RM> Sysop's Picks. General would be "caveat lector" stuff (Wild > RM> Bill and others), in the sysop's humble opinion, while Sysop's > RM> Picks would be those the sysop considers less improbable > RM> (modify this according to your degree of skepticism :-) ). > > Any sysop utilizing such a policy should also recognize a > responsibility to post a sufficiently clear description of the > criteria employed in making the selection. I fully disagree. Sysops have no obligation to justify or explain their placement of download files on their own systems. If I were moved to post such an explanation, it would be as follows: "Because I damned well felt like it." That should more than cover it. Best Regards, Rick M. -- Rick Moen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Rick.Moen@f27.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick.Moen@f27.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Rick Moen) Subject: Re: Old writers Date: 27 Feb 91 06:04:42 GMT > RM> When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that > RM> something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he > RM> states that something is impossible, he is very probably > RM> wrong. (Clarke's Law) > > RM> "When, however, the lay public rally around an idea that is > RM> denounced by distinguished but elderly scientists and > RM> supports that idea with great fervor and emotion -- the > RM> distinguished but elderly scientists are then, after all, > RM> probably right. [Asimov's Law] > > How about: > > "When two elderly, popular authors talk to each other for any > length of time, the result is invariably a bunch of useless aphorisms" How about: "You can lead an echo reader to enlightenment, but you cannot make him think"? Whatever turns ya on. Best Regards, Rick M. -- Rick Moen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Rick.Moen@f27.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hpvclmd.vcd.hp.com!miked Subject: ALTERNATIVE 3 Date: 28 Feb 91 14:18:39 GMT From: Mike Dobbs <miked@hpvclmd.vcd.hp.com> A friend of mine showed me a video tape of a TV show that was shown on the BBC in June of 1976. It was called ALTERNATIVE 3. The show appears to be a documentary about scientists mysteriously disappearing from England, a joint US/Russian covert space program complete with a base on the moon, and lots of other wild stuff. Does anybody have documented proof that this show was a hoax? I have heard rumors to that affect but nothing substantial. Also I would like to write the BBC to get their statement about the show. Can someone please provide me with an address. Thanks. -------- Mike Dobbs / Internet: miked@vcd.hp.com ********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to******** 'infopara' at the following address: UUCP {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara DOMAIN infopara@scicom.alphacdc.com ADMIN Address infopara-request@scicom.alphacdc.com {ncar,isis,boulder}!scicom!infopara-request ******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************